Unhappy Phone Call

Hello everybody

Just then I got a call from a very unhappy man, he is my master from Wu Chu Chuan.

He saw some of our clips on youtube and is very unhappy about some of the stuff I have been sharing with you guys and training with you guys. But actually I didn't really teach you guys anything but to share some knowledge and training methods with you guys.

But anyway, as a result:
- I am sorry to tell everybody that there are 2 clips from our site that has to be removed from youtube.
- I will no longer be able to show you guys anymore practical stuff relating to Wu Chu Chuan. But words are alright I guess.
- Training styles may minimise all areas that has to do with Wu Chu Chuan or probably have to cut out all Wu Chu Chuan stuff.

Also a message to everybody.

Please don't ever say I've taught you guys anything. I have shared knowledge with you guys but don't use the word TEACH.
Actually I've never really taught you guys anything but shared knowledge but just for the sake of trouble and stuff, just use proper wording.

OK so that's it. Wu Chu Chuan is out.

Next week I think we should make a little announcement thing about this.


Calvin

Bro. C

Don't worry, we understand!

M

Bro C

No worries, Bro C.
Sorry to hear that you had a phone call from your previous master.
I experienced a very similar incident like yours when I posted Burmese and Southern mantis on YouTube.

It seems some blindly think they own intellectual property on kungfu movements, which I found quite amusing and makes me appreciate the diversity of people's thoughts.

Take it easy, we just "officially" practise Southern mantis from now on.

SSS

I think it's stupid and a bit funny in a way.

Firstly, I never really done anything under the Wu Chu Chuan name really. Not like I'm starting my own school or anything.
Secondly, these movements are body movements and muscle trainings.
Thirdly, I think the Physiotherapy and Sport Science course in the University of Sydney also learn a lot of these training stuff.
Fourthly, I have seen many other arts use very similar moves and training methods anyway.
Fifthly, our group is a friendship group so it's like telling your friends not to talk about the stuff you have learnt.

Push ups are used all over the place, I really wonder who initially made it up and forgot to get that copyrighted.

But I think the muscle trainings can continue cause they are muscle trainings and it's brainless to say this training method is yours.

I think it's kinda like telling me never to use Wu Chu Chuan moves ever again in my life just in case I breach some kind of copyright stuff lol.

Yeh, guess we have to be cautious of these kinda stuff.

Best to stay out of trouble is 1st priority.


Calvin

calvy168 wrote:

Hello everybody

Just then I got a call from a very unhappy man, he is my master from Wu Chu Chuan.

He saw some of our clips on youtube and is very unhappy about some of the stuff I have been sharing with you guys and training with you guys. But actually I didn't really teach you guys anything but to share some knowledge and training methods with you guys.

But anyway, as a result:
- I am sorry to tell everybody that there are 2 clips from our site that has to be removed from youtube.
- I will no longer be able to show you guys anymore practical stuff relating to Wu Chu Chuan. But words are alright I guess.
- Training styles may minimise all areas that has to do with Wu Chu Chuan or probably have to cut out all Wu Chu Chuan stuff.

Also a message to everybody.

Please don't ever say I've taught you guys anything. I have shared knowledge with you guys but don't use the word TEACH.
Actually I've never really taught you guys anything but shared knowledge but just for the sake of trouble and stuff, just use proper wording.

OK so that's it. Wu Chu Chuan is out.

Next week I think we should make a little announcement thing about this.


Calvin

hey calvin, sorry to hear about this from your master. i won't learn anymore wu chu chuan. i was only interested in the sanchin form thats all, anyways no worries, your right better to be safe than sorry

Jervis

Dont feel too unhappy at all, Bro. C.~~!! The master didnt have the word 'collaboration' in their dictionary. Collaboration is still important for our enthusiatism in southern styles conditioning. They only believe under their own sets of movements and requirements could be the most way to achieve training goals. Thats why they consider 'unofficially' collaboration to those 'unofficially' learners are prohibited. Anyway, quote from Bruce Lee 'honestly express yourself'~~~~!! This is important to our marital arts and your life~~!!


Osu~!!
William

Dont worry about that, we can do something else

I think we have much more to share. There are 1000's way to the same destination. The way you know might not be the best for you .

calvy168 wrote:

I think it's stupid and a bit funny in a way.

Firstly, I never really done anything under the Wu Chu Chuan name really. Not like I'm starting my own school or anything.
Secondly, these movements are body movements and muscle trainings.
Thirdly, I think the Physiotherapy and Sport Science course in the University of Sydney also learn a lot of these training stuff.
Fourthly, I have seen many other arts use very similar moves and training methods anyway.
Fifthly, our group is a friendship group so it's like telling your friends not to talk about the stuff you have learnt.

oh!oh! i know Mr James Chee. I think there is a reason for him to say that may be in the way that you don't like it.
Calvy168 don't know what you have done but other school also have to own system and reason on training. Video is a things most of the traditional school not prefer you trying to share. For technique wise , i afraid any respondsible teacher won't happy to see while you're not fully understand yet to share and encourage people joint in train the same ways as you did. Beside, Mr James Chee is also a qualify physiotherapy and sport Science specialist ( well , he is Physiotherapy and Sport Science doctor do western and traditional physiotherapy treatment anyway.

calvy168 wrote:

Push ups are used all over the place, I really wonder who initially made it up and forgot to get that copyrighted..

That depand how you use it for martial art reason. There is method how you do it in wu zhu quan ways and just muscle bulid up training . There is a specific way you bend your elbow and move you shoulder blade bone. your object is not to use too much of your muscle but condition you tendon attach with you joint and muscle surface.

Bro KC,

i can see you had been practicing Wu zhu quan for a long time from your post in here or wushuweb.
Are you living in Australia? If you have time , please come to our BBQ next time.

Hi KC
I would love to understand and talk about the depth of pushups.
Would you like to come and show us some stuff?

Shingo

Shingo wrote:

Hi KC
I would love to understand and talk about the depth of pushups.
Would you like to come and show us some stuff?

Shingo

Sorry currently i am not in Australia. So if you not choose to ask them, then we have to understand over here.

I think the point is not about the push up , Is what you need the push up work for you in martial art term and training objective . Isn't it???

The depth of the James students not the muscle. I wonder have you try it before?

If just the push up issue, we want to know what is it objective and how to do it sound right with wu zhu quan term . i think, we can talk over here. No need to show. I tell you how to do it and you give a try ? Of course , at first i also want to know why you think is no different than other push up?

After all , we are sharing idea only.

KC wrote:

Shingo wrote:

Hi KC
I would love to understand and talk about the depth of pushups.
Would you like to come and show us some stuff?

Shingo

Sorry currently i am not in Australia. So if you not choose to ask them, then we have to understand over here.

I think the point is not about the push up , Is what you need the push up work for you in martial art term and training objective . Isn't it???

The depth of the James students not the muscle. I wonder have you try it before?

If just the push up issue, we want to know what is it objective and how to do it sound right with wu zhu quan term . i think, we can talk over here. No need to show. I tell you how to do it and you give a try ? Of course , at first i also want to know why you think is no different than other push up?

After all , we are sharing idea only.

Hello KC,

Haha I wonder why you keep mentioning names of Wu Zhu Quan instructors when none of us have.

Also I wonder how you know that we're in Australia when you're not... very curious about that.

Anyway, yes, so you do agree on sharing ideas and knowledge and that's absolutely fine. What I think is you're basically doing the same thing that I was doing before only you're doing it in these threads and I'm doing it face to face.

You keep mentioning the Wu Zhu Quan while I only say it's a range of exercises that we do together. I don't know but I think in a way what you're doing at this point is already more than me in terms of teaching others.

I also want to point out, Wu Zhu Quan is not the only art I know. So why would you want to keep saying that I'm teaching the wrong method?
- Firstly, I was sharing ideas (not necessarily have to work as ideas are ideas, you can agree or disagree and add and take stuff away from them)
- Secondly, those ideas I've shared does not necessarily come from Wu Zhu Quan as I've done other arts and other training methods before, some of those exercises I made up myself. eg, arm conditioning, nobody taught me to get a stick and start whacking my arms with it as I believe no schools would do that in Australia due to legal reasons. But that is what I do to strengthen my arms.
- Thirdly, some arts that other people in our group do have actions very similar to Wu Zhu Quan. One of our guys does Yi Kuen which has very stable arms and stance and he also show me some of that and I compare both and pick out the method that suits me. Thus my new modified art is for myself only because I have back injury and training in the "traditional way" wouldn't benefit me. So as a result, try not to say I'm doing stuff "wrong" as I do admit my style is not traditional. But at the same time you can't say I've changed the art as I am not saying what I do it Wu Zhu or Yi Kuen as it's not. I don't give them a name but what I'll say when people ask is "it's got a mixture of Wu Zhu Quan and Yi Kuen in it". Also I don't really use any names in training methods except say what I do when I train Wu Zhu Quan (just like what you're doing here).

Anywayz, thanks for your sharing.

Not trying to be a rebel or anything but only try to let you see my point. Please think about it and compare what you would do if you're in my situation and really, be realistic about it.


Calvin

To Calvin ,

Quote :

Haha I wonder why you keep mentioning names of Wu Zhu Quan instructors when none of us have.

Well, lets say i am also a instructors but not direct affiliate with Master James Chee.

KC wrote:

Also I wonder how you know that we're in Australia when you're not... very curious about that.

So , does the answer above clear you suspicion ? if you want to pay a visit, you are welcome.

My opinion, when you do things without proper inform that can lead to a lot of misunderstand incident, and when you received unhappy phone call.

Quote :

Anyway, yes, so you do agree on sharing ideas and knowledge and that's absolutely fine. What I think is you're basically doing the same thing that I was doing before only you're doing it in these threads and I'm doing it face to face.

So far i only know that you put these threads make your complain. As a matter of fact, i just exchange some view that you may not aware and see into yourself.

lets focus back to the technique . You say push up is most common things seen among the other martial art system. But in term of goal of conditioning as i review, can your message cause some miss leading?

Quote :

You keep mentioning the Wu Zhu Quan while I only say it's a range of exercises that we do together. I don't know but I think in a way what you're doing at this point is already more than me in terms of teaching others.

Well, from my qualification position and the topic involve, i don't get unhappy phone call from Master James. But if you just learn, there are a lot of things, you still don't quite understand.

Quote :

I also want to point out, Wu Zhu Quan is not the only art I know. So why would you want to keep saying that I'm teaching the wrong method?
- Firstly, I was sharing ideas (not necessarily have to work as ideas are ideas, you can agree or disagree and add and take stuff away from them)
- Secondly, those ideas I've shared does not necessarily come from Wu Zhu Quan as I've done other arts and other training methods before, some of those exercises I made up myself.

As a instructor, my nightmare is to face of lot of miss inform infor spread to public. like this invention

Quote :

arm conditioning, nobody taught me to get a stick and start whacking my arms with it as I believe no schools would do that in Australia due to legal reasonsBut that is what I do to strengthen my arms..

Because this will harm your arm in long run. Better way to do this is not stick in stead is bamboo strip. This is Gong Han Ng Chor method. Care to ask why may be better when you are old.

Quote :

- Thirdly, some arts that other people in our group do have actions very similar to Wu Zhu Quan. One of our guys does Yi Kuen which has very stable arms and stance and he also show me some of that and I compare both and pick out the method that suits me.

You experiment by yourself . That's fine but do it let people think both are same,you could be wrong. We build that on the other hand is to work to defuse this ability. This is a very sensitive things and James always ask his instructor class keep low profile on that.

Quote :

Thus my new modified art is for myself only because I have back injury and training in the "traditional way" wouldn't benefit me. .

So is that mean your spine can not stay straight you should seek physiotherapy treatment before you train anythings.

Quote :

So as a result, try not to say I'm doing stuff "wrong" as I do admit my style is not traditional. But at the same time you can't say I've changed the art as I am not saying what I do it Wu Zhu or Yi Kuen as it's not. I don't give them a name but what I'll say when people ask is "it's got a mixture of Wu Zhu Quan and Yi Kuen in it". Also I don't really use any names in training methods except say what I do when I train Wu Zhu Quan (just like what you're doing here).

As a matter of fact, i have similar incident happen but able to handle fine to defuse the tension. Perhaps you handle it very crude ways ?

KC wrote:

To Calvin ,

Quote :

Haha I wonder why you keep mentioning names of Wu Zhu Quan instructors when none of us have.

Well, lets say i am also a instructors but not direct affiliate with Master James Chee.

KC wrote:

Also I wonder how you know that we're in Australia when you're not... very curious about that.

So , does the answer above clear you suspicion ? if you want to pay a visit, you are welcome.

My opinion, when you do things without proper inform that can lead to a lot of misunderstand incident, and when you received unhappy phone call.

Quote :

Anyway, yes, so you do agree on sharing ideas and knowledge and that's absolutely fine. What I think is you're basically doing the same thing that I was doing before only you're doing it in these threads and I'm doing it face to face.

So far i only know that you put these threads make your complain. As a matter of fact, i just exchange some view that you may not aware and see into yourself.

lets focus back to the technique . You say push up is most common things seen among the other martial art system. But in term of goal of conditioning as i review, can your message cause some miss leading?

Quote :

You keep mentioning the Wu Zhu Quan while I only say it's a range of exercises that we do together. I don't know but I think in a way what you're doing at this point is already more than me in terms of teaching others.

Well, from my qualification position and the topic involve, i don't get unhappy phone call from Master James. But if you just learn, there are a lot of things, you still don't quite understand.

Quote :

I also want to point out, Wu Zhu Quan is not the only art I know. So why would you want to keep saying that I'm teaching the wrong method?
- Firstly, I was sharing ideas (not necessarily have to work as ideas are ideas, you can agree or disagree and add and take stuff away from them)
- Secondly, those ideas I've shared does not necessarily come from Wu Zhu Quan as I've done other arts and other training methods before, some of those exercises I made up myself.

As a instructor, my nightmare is to face of lot of miss inform infor spread to public. like this invention

Quote :

arm conditioning, nobody taught me to get a stick and start whacking my arms with it as I believe no schools would do that in Australia due to legal reasonsBut that is what I do to strengthen my arms..

Because this will harm your arm in long run. Better way to do this is not stick in stead is bamboo strip. This is Gong Han Ng Chor method. Care to ask why may be better when you are old.

Quote :

- Thirdly, some arts that other people in our group do have actions very similar to Wu Zhu Quan. One of our guys does Yi Kuen which has very stable arms and stance and he also show me some of that and I compare both and pick out the method that suits me.

You experiment by yourself . That's fine but do it let people think both are same,you could be wrong. We build that on the other hand is to work to defuse this ability. This is a very sensitive things and James always ask his instructor class keep low profile on that.

Quote :

Thus my new modified art is for myself only because I have back injury and training in the "traditional way" wouldn't benefit me. .

So is that mean your spine can not stay straight you should seek physiotherapy treatment before you train anythings.

Quote :

So as a result, try not to say I'm doing stuff "wrong" as I do admit my style is not traditional. But at the same time you can't say I've changed the art as I am not saying what I do it Wu Zhu or Yi Kuen as it's not. I don't give them a name but what I'll say when people ask is "it's got a mixture of Wu Zhu Quan and Yi Kuen in it". Also I don't really use any names in training methods except say what I do when I train Wu Zhu Quan (just like what you're doing here).

As a matter of fact, i have similar incident happen but able to handle fine to defuse the tension. Perhaps you handle it very crude ways ?

eerrr the problem isn't because calvin's ideas are wrong or will be misinterpreted on the videos as the wrong method to teach. his teacher didn't want the idea that calvin is teaching people for free and the stuff he had been sharing on the videos looked very much like he was teaching others what his master had taught him.
it's not like he got yelled at by his master. like calvin said, he never said his methods were exactly like wu zhu, they're his interpretations of a method inspired by wu zhu and by other arts which suits him best. it is not wrong to use another person's idea to interpret into your own style, that will not breach any "copyright law".

Quote :

eerrr the problem isn't because calvin's ideas are wrong or will be misinterpreted on the videos as the wrong method to teach. his teacher didn't want the idea that calvin is teaching people for free and the stuff he had been sharing on the videos looked very much like he was teaching others what his master had taught him.".

I things you are missing a point. I tought you something and without my consene you think this is no different than other style than you copy and paste it in public. An act that let the public can just see without truely experience make their own selfconcious view command . Is that fair and sound right to you ?

Quote :

it's not like he got yelled at by his master. like calvin said, he never said his methods were exactly like wu zhu, they're his interpretations of a method inspired by wu zhu and by other arts which suits him best. it is not wrong to use another person's idea to interpret into your own style, that will not breach any "copyright lamw".

That sound like you are in act sneaking you way to copy it place in public, let people hack it. Is that sound right ??? From my knowledge of James Chee work out program it can not be show on the full vision work on the clip. But just only partial clip by doing that you are easily put youself in alot of unnecessery misunderstand situation what for ?

I've posted a post previously but was deleted. To the one who deleted my post, please don't as I think it's very important.

Notice something, this thread is no longer talking about Martial Arts, it started talking about a particular person and start bringing in irrelevant issues.
I for one never mentioned any names or anything in my discussions but KC, you repeatedly repeat the name of a master, his art and ways he do things and how other people do things and start saying all kinds of stuff.
Look, our discussions and concentration was into Martial Arts and trying to keep people anonymous because once we start bringing up names, it no longer concentrate on the art but instead on the person. Not only a person I think but that person's school and art. So this thread has indirectly turned into a trap for anybody who reads and replies to it. It is no longer constructive but destructive.

The reason I started this thread in the first place is because I saw a problems, told you the problem, problem solved and we should move on.
Very unfortunately, we start a very destructive discussion here once names are mentioned.

To all SWU members, please stop replying this thread as every time you reply you are indirectly fanning the flames of a very unnecessary argument.

Please continue training and keep sharing your views.

Keep the discussions on Martial Arts and try to avoid the use of names or comments about one particular person or school.

For example, Wing Chun discussions and talking about it's movements and stuff are absolutely fine. But start saying that "the Wing Chun school at XXXX is this this and that" could be avoided.

Yep, I will stop replying this thread and I hope none of you would either.

Thanks


Calvin

To Calvy 168,

The first thread is ok. You are doing damage control. I person don't mind sharing knowledge or exchange idea among different style. But there is fine line cannot be cross.
This also happen even among us. But, we able to defuse the tension from our instructor. However, we won't do a command such as making your second thread commend about this incident and create unnecessary perception influence to other and this won't be fair to the person object to your action. I also see there is potential problem that you don't see it right now.