Shaolin Monk VS US SWAT team Captain in Las Vegas

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_ASq3_5Z8Q



We should resepect wht he did

OMG!

I respect he did.

Oh... How did that happen?




Calvin

right from the start the monk was dominating the fight for the 1st 15 sec, he lost due to repeating the same predictabale moves & not as calm as the captain. but he trulr deserves respect & believes this is an enriching experience for him.

一胆，二力，三功夫... (guts>power>KungFu)

micke wrote:

right from the start the monk was dominating the fight for the 1st 15 sec, he lost due to repeating the same predictabale moves & not as calm as the captain. but he trulr deserves respect & believes this is an enriching experience for him.

I heard from Baker that the gent could not accept the defeat.
Went really frustrated.
And I think that most people will overlook the first 15 secs and focus on the outcome, including himself.
So did he punch too light. Or he is just no used to the gloves?
But surely he must have train with gloves before?
Perhaps let us just do boxing and weight training?
It is so much effective.
Before 1867 when fought by bare knuckles, do they fight like today? Just wondering...

http://cyberboxingzone.com/boxing/LarryFoley.htm

Laurence "Larry" Foley, an Aussie Bare knuckles champion....respect.


Over

Bwk wrote:

一胆，二力，三功夫... (guts>power>KungFu)

Please note that it is for layman only.

Overlord wrote:

micke wrote:

right from the start the monk was dominating the fight for the 1st 15 sec, he lost due to repeating the same predictabale moves & not as calm as the captain. but he trulr deserves respect & believes this is an enriching experience for him.

I heard from Baker that the gent could not accept the defeat.
Went really frustrated.
And I think that most people will overlook the first 15 secs and focus on the outcome, including himself.
So did he punch too light. Or he is just no used to the gloves?
But surely he must have train with gloves before?
Perhaps let us just do boxing and weight training?
It is so much effective.
Before 1867 when fought by bare knuckles, do they fight like today? Just wondering...

http://cyberboxingzone.com/boxing/LarryFoley.htm

Laurence "Larry" Foley, an Aussie Bare knuckles champion....respect.


Over

Today some people still fighting in bare knuckles:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwVFD47c8gw

Do you think the said Shaolin Monk can win in such bare hand fighting matches?
Do bare hand fighting matches be finish within 15 sec?

There are many reasons to cause a loss in fight but it will not be cased by wearing boxing gloves.

tankinbj wrote:

Bwk wrote:

一胆，二力，三功夫... (guts>power>KungFu)

Please note that it is for layman only.

I think "一胆，二力，三功夫" is a universal truth in martial arts world.

If you claim "non-layman " is different, could you please give me any example to support your view?

Yes Sifu ET:

That is exactly what i am saying, we should just do boxing and weight training.
Guess that is more practical and more effective.
Wasting time on useless kungfu is just not productive.


Over

Overlord wrote:

Yes Sifu ET:

That is exactly what i am saying, we should just do boxing and weight training.
Guess that is more practical and more effective.
Wasting time on useless kungfu is just not productive.


Over

Kungfu is productive.

The problem is people restrict themselve from "doing boxing", restrict themselve doing "weight training", restrict themselve from doing anything modern effective training.

Many Kung fu people only restrict them in doing form and reading old books, only rectrict them in telling and hearing magic kung fu stories.

I read that old bare knuckle boxing was different.
For years it was unlimited rounds & lot of dirty tricks -> hence they started "queensbeery rules"

Bareknuckles hit mostly the body as they hands/knuckles got too damaged hitting the persons face.
(apparently one counter for the head was butt the fist - forehead solid -> hands smashed = might also be a myth)

Some say less people got brain damage in the old fights yet:
1- those guys were hard & would never say if they were in pain - even years later.
2- tests for brain damage - not much I suppect.

As far as the fight on youtube - "Its not how the dog fights, its the fight in the dog"
I just think the other guy had "the look" like he wanted to win. Even before the first punch/kick was thrown.

I sure he wouldn't approach the rematch with the same attitude & would hammer the other guy.

Also the result of one fight is not a way to judge a whole system.
Two different people - two different results.

Leon

Leon, thanks for the input.

There is nothing worse than a shattered spirit, this include his core belief and understanding of things.

And the problem for a lot kungfu people is this, when they found their learning and system is not really applicable in boxing rings after years of drilling, they start to question their roots down under. Denial maybe.
Is like you make kungfu into a god, and god is taken away....bit like this shaolin monk in this instance.

Yeah Sifu ET, I see you point.
Cheers,

Merry Xmas. Wish all will have a fruitful kungfu next year.


Over

E.T. wrote:

tankinbj wrote:

Bwk wrote:

一胆，二力，三功夫... (guts>power>KungFu)

Please note that it is for layman only.

I think "一胆，二力，三功夫" is a universal truth in martial arts world.

If you claim "non-layman " is different, could you please give me any example to support your view?

In my personal view, the formula for professional in Chines KungFu is (KungFu>power>guts). May I reuse the wording from KWONG, game, everything is game in those match. For myself, I learn the technic, how to use the power(勁) and grow my spirit & vitality. Excuse for my english is not good enough to translate the following phase by Master 萬籟聲.
"武術用勁,并非暴勁,乃以意使勁,五靈沈著,氣歸單田,剛柔並濟,是為武術上之勁!,不然,即農夫等粗人之勁,不足為貴. 蓋此等之勁,一逾壯年,即漸消滅,伊等之勁,只可以抬什物,舉石頭,打俗人,亦名為力.緣不能運用者為力,流通四肢者為勁,是萬不能與武術家相提并請也"

For example, I feel the master in the video who he fulfilled the above requirement.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ikTCsDTbntA&list=PLA3EF2E54FF6B916B&index=27&playnext=1&feature=bfnav

tankinbj wrote:

...
In my personal view, the formula for professional in Chines KungFu is (KungFu>power>guts). May I reuse the wording from KWONG, game, everything is game in those match. For myself, I learn the technic, how to use the power(勁) and grow my spirit & vitality. Excuse for my english is not good enough to translate the following phase by Master 萬籟聲.
"武術用勁,并非暴勁,乃以意使勁,五靈沈著,氣歸單田,剛柔並濟,是為武術上之勁!,不然,即農夫等粗人之勁,不足為貴. 蓋此等之勁,一逾壯年,即漸消滅,伊等之勁,只可以抬什物,舉石頭,打俗人,亦名為力.緣不能運用者為力,流通四肢者為勁,是萬不能與武術家相提并請也"

For example, I feel the master in the video who he fulfilled the above requirement.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ikTCsDTbntA&list=PLA3EF2E54FF6B916B&index=27&playnext=1&feature=bfnav

It seems you haven't provide any example to support your view that: "KungFu>power>guts". Besides, it is irrelevant to layman or non-layman.

萬籟聲 was a famous Chinese martial arts book writer but I don't think he was a good fighter. His phase you code is definitely incorrect. Anyone who had taken wreight training will understand the muscle is very important to support you in fighting. It doesn't matter what martial arts style you are learning.

Please wear a pair boxing gloves and experience a full contact sparring. You will understand the techniques shown in your video cannot help you in fighting. Try! Kung Fu is real techniques, please don't base on imagination.

Hi Tank,

The basis of 勁 is 力, notice the writing in Kanji characters right side.

And secondly, try to join a boxing gym or kickboxing gym and train there for a while.

Thirdly 膽 guts is not the same as cruel and fierce it means when you need to take a stand, you can take stand.
It is one thing to fight but another to to take a stand in real life.
Don't just ware glove and fight. But practice with professional.


Over

It seems some ppl didnt get the meaning of this match:

1. ShaoLin Claimed "天下武术出少林 - All (Chinese) MA originate from Shaolin", if that's true, boxing gloves should not be an excuse.

2. Shaolin strictly forbidden its Monk to compete MA, although Yilong is a diciple, it shown that he and his companion didn't even expect he'll lose.

It happen in b4, General Yu(俞大猷）, who wroted 《剑经》 in Ming Dynasty went to Shaolin for the famous Shaolin Staff skill(齐眉棍）, but later on he was disappointed because the Shaolin staff were fancy due to lack of practical combat experience. So instead, General Yu teach/improve Shaolin Staff.

It's simple, it told us to be Open-minded. I respect Yilong since he's the one who stand in the ring.

PS: Thank u Leon
(It is not the size of the dog in the fight, it is the size of the fight in the dog - Mark Twain) - The guts

Overlord wrote:

Yes Sifu ET:

That is exactly what i am saying, we should just do boxing and weight training.
Guess that is more practical and more effective.
Wasting time on useless kungfu is just not productive.


Over

Ah my friend................Old Kung Fu school people don't train like Modern Shaolin Dancing Monks or do forms after forms to make themselves look good in public.

The Problem is today's young people don't like the old school type of training because there are potential injuries involved, hardship of constant body, arms and legs conditioning. How to use Dit Dar medicines to keep their tools solid and sharp!

One Needs real teacher to show how to issue real power into target at moving mode, connecting target is most important, otherwise all these forms just a bunch of useless exercises that disappoint oneself in a real encounter.

Try this:-Find a boxing gym in your area and put your kung fu knowhow against a semi pro boxer, Thai Boxer, BJJ or MMA guy and if you come out OK after few real exchanges, then your kung fu is worth keeping, otherwise start again and build real solid foundation and toss out the flowery Bullshits that have contaminated many styles for the past 50-60 years.

Bo Sim Sau wrote:

Overlord wrote:

Yes Sifu ET:

That is exactly what i am saying, we should just do boxing and weight training.
Guess that is more practical and more effective.
Wasting time on useless kungfu is just not productive.


Over

Ah my friend................Old Kung Fu school people don't train like Modern Shaolin Dancing Monks or do forms after forms to make themselves look good in public.

The Problem is today's young people don't like the old school type of training because there are potential injuries involved, hardship of constant body, arms and legs conditioning. How to use Dit Dar medicines to keep their tools solid and sharp!

One Needs real teacher to show how to issue real power into target at moving mode, connecting target is most important, otherwise all these forms just a bunch of useless exercises that disappoint oneself in a real encounter.

Try this:-Find a boxing gym in your area and put your kung fu knowhow against a semi pro boxer, Thai Boxer, BJJ or MMA guy and if you come out OK after few real exchanges, then your kung fu is worth keeping, otherwise start again and build real solid foundation and toss out the flowery Bullshits that have contaminated many styles for the past 50-60 years.

I think all styles of arts are good as all of them are exercises. They only train different parts of the body in terms of muscles, tendons or ligaments or even bone. Modern day training and olden day training are different because back then people have less equipments and many restrictions. Therefore they need to use forms and their own body to train up their muscles, energy, power and the list goes on.

Plus. Fighting in the streets and fighting in the ring are completely different things. In the streets, nobody will stop anything so it's basically fight to the death without restrictions. But fighting in the ring has many rules and restrictions. Also there's gloves which protect both sides from getting hurt. So I don't agree with the flowery Bull Shits that you've just mentioned as I think they are useful stuff, people just needs to know how to use it to make it useful. Plus, I don't like the idea of going around to different schools and fighting their students for a couple of reasons.

1. The people there may not fight their best
2. The people there may think you are challenging them thus gives you a bad reputation
3. It gives comparisons to different styles and schools which breaks relationships

In the end. I think all styles are good, and I think the fighting bit has too many factors to consider to give a standard one off answer.


Calvin

Overlord wrote:

Hi Tank,

The basis of 勁 is 力, notice the writing in Kanji characters right side.

And secondly, try to join a boxing gym or kickboxing gym and train there for a while.

Thirdly 膽 guts is not the same as cruel and fierce it means when you need to take a stand, you can take stand.
It is one thing to fight but another to to take a stand in real life.
Don't just ware glove and fight. But practice with professional.


Over

Thank you for your advice. I will join some activities which they are included full contact sparring or boxing when my Bagua palm in higher level for challenging myself in future.

In this stage, I have some similar fighting with my 師兄 without glove and pad.

I said KungFu>power>guts because of I had following experience. Once I was similar fighting with my 師叔 (I am 33 and he is around 55~60) since two months ago, I concentrated on a heavily punch but he transferred the force of my punch to other direction lightly (他用撩掌化解), then my guard was crashed and he hit my peepee slightly.

Bagua palm has no rule attacking eyes, throat, neck, hind-brain, peepee, armpit, joint, floating ar-cual rib, etc. It let me know I am learning the techniques for real fighting.

calvy168 wrote:

Bo Sim Sau wrote:

Overlord wrote:

Yes Sifu ET:

That is exactly what i am saying, we should just do boxing and weight training.
Guess that is more practical and more effective.
Wasting time on useless kungfu is just not productive.


Over

Ah my friend................Old Kung Fu school people don't train like Modern Shaolin Dancing Monks or do forms after forms to make themselves look good in public.

The Problem is today's young people don't like the old school type of training because there are potential injuries involved, hardship of constant body, arms and legs conditioning. How to use Dit Dar medicines to keep their tools solid and sharp!

One Needs real teacher to show how to issue real power into target at moving mode, connecting target is most important, otherwise all these forms just a bunch of useless exercises that disappoint oneself in a real encounter.

Try this:-Find a boxing gym in your area and put your kung fu knowhow against a semi pro boxer, Thai Boxer, BJJ or MMA guy and if you come out OK after few real exchanges, then your kung fu is worth keeping, otherwise start again and build real solid foundation and toss out the flowery Bullshits that have contaminated many styles for the past 50-60 years.

I think all styles of arts are good as all of them are exercises. They only train different parts of the body in terms of muscles, tendons or ligaments or even bone. Modern day training and olden day training are different because back then people have less equipments and many restrictions. Therefore they need to use forms and their own body to train up their muscles, energy, power and the list goes on.

Plus. Fighting in the streets and fighting in the ring are completely different things. In the streets, nobody will stop anything so it's basically fight to the death without restrictions. But fighting in the ring has many rules and restrictions. Also there's gloves which protect both sides from getting hurt. So I don't agree with the flowery Bull Shits that you've just mentioned as I think they are useful stuff, people just needs to know how to use it to make it useful. Plus, I don't like the idea of going around to different schools and fighting their students for a couple of reasons.

1. The people there may not fight their best
2. The people there may think you are challenging them thus gives you a bad reputation
3. It gives comparisons to different styles and schools which breaks relationships

In the end. I think all styles are good, and I think the fighting bit has too many factors to consider to give a standard one off answer.


Calvin

Thanks Calvin.

I will join some activities from other club when I feel my techniques is in high level for testing myself that can I stand in different attacks? I will defend only.

In Hong Kong martial arts discussion forum, someone posted :

"我話俾你呢班武盲知，力量，速度，抗打，體能，同實戰關條能事！
一場實戰10秒之內分勝負，唔係在乎你力量幾大，而系在乎你識唔識得運用力量！
唔係在乎你拳速腳速有幾快，系在乎你有無正確方法運用身體！
呢個世界更加唔存在抗打，人體咁多部位唔受得攻擊，你抗條命啦！
10秒打完一場交，你操到可以跑幾千公里體能，系咪多能餘！
我無睇唔起擂台技術，只系擂台還擂台，唔好拉埋實戰黎講，實戰同擂台根本系兩回事！
以上說話我講既，歡迎你呢班白痴仔追求真找我比武交流"

Roughtly, he (in black) said power, speed, muscle are not important in real fight. In his mind, a real fight can be finished within 10sec...

The black guy 81kg (Wing Chun) vs The red guy 75kg(Boxing and he may be a member of Hong Kong boxing team). The rule is based on Pride competition that punch, kick, ground fight all allowed, and they were wearing mma gloves...

See the result:

The flowery stuffs are useful??? I find it hard to understand why people are defending such rubbish or believe such techniques can be pulled off in a real encounter???? I've trained security people, army people and bouncers for many years to know that getting the basic tools sharpen, timing and landing the hits set a reality for many people that drown in such flowery bullshit. It wasn't for YouTube’s exposure; many people are still wandering in their secure fairyland...LOL!!!!

Do a test: Take your gloves off, and head gear and all those fancy expensive protections and fight a Thai boxer (with no gloves) in the ring or on the mat, use your fancy kung fu stuffs and see it works or not.......LOL!!!!

Actually, xinyi, xinyi, and baji is pretty embedded in me.
I only know the purpose of me practicing them is to refine them and specialize them, and dwell on them. It is not perfect, but I am working on it.

Of course, I understand ET when he says being open minded. And Baker saying guts is important.

And I dont necessary believe boxing or kick boxing is better, tank , it just depend on how you train, how deep you understand, and no body is perfect, including sifu (hey tank, there is problem with the clip you posted, most of boxer will punch twice or three times, i learnt that from ET), only YOU can Perfect it for yourself, no kungfu, no sifu, no boxing or Thai boxing. And only YOU know what is it you want to be....by this i mean a lot of things.

Let pro be pro fighter. Let ma lover enjoy working on them. I think that is the purpose of this kungfu club.

Let us just work on what we want and enjoy the process. As I will enjoy perfecting my arts and stay on focused on this objective.

Cheers,
Merry Xmas

Over